Who Killed Women's Bodybuilding?

The reason for my attack on you T-bar is the fact that you clearly stated in your original post that the "majority of those competing are just trying to get what the men have by trying to be men". That is a fucked up statement. The majority are trying to look the way they want to look. They are not trying to look like men. Talk about calling names calling me an ass or a jerk is fine. Knock yourself out. No where did I call you any name what so ever. I called your statements childish. Please re-read that. Yes everyone is entitled to voice an opinion but saying someone looks like a man when they are a woman is wrong. It's hurtful and demeaning to that person. No you don't have to like it. Yes you can state that you don't like it. But at least do it in an unhurtful way. Now a woman cannot grow a dick. A clit is a clit no matter how big it gets. I've only seen a couple of examples of a clit that is just too big. But would that bother me if Dieselgirl got like that? No it wouldn't. She is a woman just the same. I know several women with deep voices who don't workout at all. So who cares what they sound like. The funny thing is the women that most people really make fun of were never very pretty to begin with. Ever see pics of Nicole Bass before she competed? Not a beauty queen. But does that give anyone the right to go up to her and insult her? NO! I can't tell you how many times people have come up to me and Dieselgirl and have made comments about her that were insulting for no reason. Just came up out of the blue. Ape1821 do you think that's right? I mean aren't they entitled to their opinion? How would you feel if I met you and your wife or girlfriend said hi and looked at her and said wow you are pretty ugly. Is that within my right to do so? I don't think so. You would knock me the fuck out. The women that take it too far are decreasing big time. So hopefully this won't be an issue much longer. My other point was that just because 99% of the population thinks a certain way that doesn't make it right. The majority of the population thinks being homosexual is wrong. Well why the hell should they care? They aren't gay so don't worry about what someone else is doing. So T-bar if you think I attacked you personally so be it. You posted and I responded to the comments you made that I did not agree with and didn't think were fair statements. That's great you were married to a female pro. Who cares. I don't. But I didn't call you any names but you did to me. Whatever. I'm done dealing with this. People need to learn not to worry about what other people look like or do.

Actually you need to learn that others can have opinions that are different than yours. I see now that you are just trying to be a man and back a girl you like. That still doesn't make you right and me wrong. You can play on my words all you like, I still have the right to feel the way I do. And as for you knowing why pro bodybuilders do things...I think I'll stick to what I know vs what you are guessing. Did you travel with them for over 10 years? Nope. I did.

These bodybuilders being ugly before they started lifting has nothing to do with anything. But I am sorry to hear that people have come up to Diesel and said she was ugly in front of you. I'm not sure what that says about her, or about you, or about them, but I know it has nothing to do with my original comments about women's bodybuilding. It does explain why you guys are so hyper sensitive. You are choosing to relate my comments about the sport to your bad experiences or insecurities. Clearly I, and my comments about the sport, are not where your real issue lays.

Bottom line...I get to have my own opinion even if they are different than yours.

It just occurred to me where it is that you two are so off. You said it yourself.

People need to learn not to worry about what other people look like or do.

THIS SPORT IS ONLY ABOUT THE WAY YOU LOOK! So it does matter, in fact that's the ONLY thing that matters. It isn't a sport of strength or smarts (thank goodness). It's all about looks and that my friend is subjective even to the judges. So I sure as hell should be able to give my two cents when it comes to what I think the girls should look like. You are making sure to give yours, at the same time hassling me about giving mine.

Never said you can't have your opinion but I did say it can be expressed in a better manner. Call us sensitive all you want. I've been in bodybuilding a long time and my experiences and opinions are not just based on comments that she has gotten. I'll take what I know over what you know as well. I'm very well aware of others having their own opinons and are fine with it. I still say that when you say women are trying to be men then that is not a valid opinion. You will only know if that is true if you ask the woman and she tells you that is the case. See things the way you want. Read into my posts however you want. Make what ever judgement you'd like about me and why I posted what I did. You are incorrect in your thinking of why I posted but that's ok. Like it or hate it I believe female bodybuilding will keep on going for quite some time.

Originally posted by T-Bar
It just occurred to me where it is that you two are so off. You said it yourself.

THIS SPORT IS ONLY ABOUT THE WAY YOU LOOK! So it does matter, in fact that's the ONLY thing that matters. It isn't a sport of strength or smarts (thank goodness). It's all about looks and that my friend is subjective even to the judges. So I sure as hell should be able to give my two cents when it comes to what I think the girls should look like. You are making sure to give yours, at the same time hassling me about giving mine.

You are absolutely correct. When you are on stage being judged. Not when you are walking down the street. A judge also will not tell a female competitor after the show that you would of done better had you not tried to look like a man. See what I'm saying. It's not that you can't have an opinion because you can. It's that people need to think before they voice it. You can say "I don't think they look good, they have too much muscle etc" but don't say they look like men, are trying to be men etc. Since you were married to a Pro I would think you would get that. If you don't fine. That's all for me. This is defiately a discussion that will never end.

I have to agree with Buffd DG and LIftingChic. you can have your opinions but express them tactfully. and by the sounds of some posts it seems like some are just insecure with themselves. to see some women take there physiques to such levels is amazing and demands respect because they are busting there asses in the gym and kitchen just as hard as the men are. Whether you think it is right or wrong or if you think it isnt sexy thats fine. just be respectful. i gotta give props to all the women bodybuilders. there isnt as much money in it yet they still put themselves through hell for the love of the Game. you gotta respect that.

some womens sports arent entertaining to me like womens basketball but who am i to say that they shouldnt play and because there tall they are grosse and trying to look like men.

womens bodybuilding on the other hand is crazy to watch. some of those women well most are twice my size.thats badass.

Judging a person is not voluntary. The moment you see a person, you have formed a judgement about how that person looks. To say that someone is good-looking or ugly is instictive, natural, and necessary. It has nothing to do with being asked to be judged. It happens. This is my first point.

Second point. There is all this fuss about being sensitive AND NOT TELLING PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE UGLY OR NOT. Now, there's judgement; the kind of judgement whose object cannot react to it. This is dangerous. Don't tell people they look ugly, but treat them as if they are. So, should we tell people our opinion about their looks? Well, I would under the following conditions:
1. They ask me to do so,
2. They behave as if they are Helen of Troy (but are not),
3. They promote a look that I find ugly.
Otherwise, who cares?

Third point, the obvious point. T-bar said that these women look like men. Well, do they? This question can be answered very objectively. Just put a man and a woman next to the other and compare. Well? You be the judge.

Fourth point. Everyone is talking about being tactful. What is this? If my opinion is "they look like men," how can I say this more tactfuly? First you have an opinion based on some kind of foundation, then you say it sensibly. YOU CANNOT SET THE LEVEL OF WHAT IS SENSIBLE AND TACTFUL FIRST AND THEN ASK PEOPLE TO HAVE OPINIONS!!! This way you limit minds and thoughts to what you have a priori deemed normal; THIS IS MOB RULES AND PC CENSORSHIP!

Fifth point. This is a forum; expect interpersonal friction, tempers to flare, but also expect good intentions. Leave your hypersensitivity behind and argue sensibly and logically. T-bar's (and my) position is "they look like men." The phrase is in good english, there is no swearing in it, and heck this is what we believe! What more do you want! Call what we think as black white and vice versa? I am sure that many OTHER men like these women. I'm cool with it.

The crux of the matter is that the "tactful" people are trying to force their aesthetics on other people by allowing only positive comments to surface using political correctness, whining, acting weak, and forming cliques.

You are asking to compromise personal opinion. First, I have an opinion. Then, I express it in the most sensible manner without compromising it. People who are strong and with no chips on their shoulders should be fine with all this for or against female bb.

Very well said ape. I'm still laughing that I was supposed to post "tactfully" about a picture of a women with an enlarged clit. I supposed I could have gone with, "golly that suuuurrrre is sumptin"

Do we really need to turn into a Seinfeld episode and end everything with, "not that there's anything wrong with that"

thanks DG and buff.. they are what bodybuilding and weight lifting is all about.. just cause i think someone is ugly.. fat or whatever DOESN"T NOT GIVE ME THE RIGHT TO JUDGE THEM... you children,TBAR and ape and M$$, are just insecure about yourself so you chose to harrass others to make yourself look better... i am let you guys win .. cause I AM THE BETTER PERSON...

this is the end of me in this thread... you guys seriously need to grow up.. and i hope you NEVER have parents, kids, or friend that are "different" in any way cause you would probably harrass them too.. I will say a pray for ya tonight KIDS...

LC

Originally posted by ape1821
Judging a person is not voluntary. The moment you see a person, you have formed a judgement about how that person looks. To say that someone is good-looking or ugly is instictive, natural, and necessary. It has nothing to do with being asked to be judged. It happens. This is my first point.

Thats bullshit if i ever heard it.. just cause you make "non- voluntary"(not that it is true) judgments does not mean you have TO VOICE THEM keep them to yourself self...

I can sit here and say that i DO NOT JUDGE people cause you know what.. i have been in the shoes and know what it is like to be harrass cause you just chose to weight lift(that was BEFORE i even start taking any AAS).. it comes down to you have NO RIGHT TO TELL ANYONE WHAT THEY CAN OR CAN'T DO UNLESS YOU ARE GOD HIMSELF... just think a freaking moment what i would be like to walk in the shoes of a female weight lifter( not even a bber..just a chic that enjoys lifting weights..and is all natural.. ) they still get harrassed as bad as a Full blown bbers... you guys are trying to point finger at one certain kinda of bber when there are TONs more bber that don't act , talk or look like they do... please just open you eye and ears for one second and realize that we aren't all chic trying to be males..

i seriously feel sorry for you guys..

LC

I don't see a guy in these pics..

another

No, but I see a girl, more like read a girl, who has some serious issues. No one was attacking you, but damn you went straight for the kill didn't you. Wonder why that is. Nothing said here was against you. It was just how people feel toward women's bodybuilding and the direction it was headed. Funny that Cutie can post an article that slants things one way, but if someone points another direction they are attacked and called children, told to keep the fuck to themselves... By the way pretty girl. You are seriously breaking the AZ rules by attacking members the way you are doing.

I only used the term "children" cause thats what it seems to me that you guys are.. i am not attacking anyone.. but if you choose to act and treat others like you are a selfish child then i will call you that... I didn't mean to attack anyone i am just saying... open your eyes see that we live in a world that everyone is different.. we aren't all the same... just try to be a little more open to that..

LC

Originally posted by T-Bar
No, but I see a girl, more like read a girl, who has some serious issues. No one was attacking you, but damn you went straight for the kill didn't you. Wonder why that is. Nothing said here was against you. It was just how people feel toward women's bodybuilding and the direction it was headed. Funny that Cutie can post an article that slants things one way, but if someone points another direction they are attacked and called children, told to keep the fuck to themselves... By the way pretty girl. You are seriously breaking the AZ rules by attacking members the way you are doing.

seriously.. you may not be actually talking about me.. cause you have never seen my pics.. but you are talking about FEMALE bbers in a negative way..i consider myself a female bbers and this shit of judge chic just cause they chose to lift weight and diet down to a low % is getting old... .. if you had to walk in my shoe or any other female bbers shoes for a day.. i think you would realize that its not that easy... but since I and others love the sport so much we still put 100%into it.. It really is ok not to " like " the sport of female bbing but people just be respectful and keep you negative judgments and view to your self.. thats all we are asking for..

LC