cellulite

So, in men, exercising obliques (and abs) + fat loss would do the job ...

Posted by: @Labrat

While the typical gynoid (female) pattern of bodyfat deposition is the pear shape, there are many women who have an android (male) pattern (the apple shape). From the research, it appears that this gender pattern is highly associated with insulin sensitivity, and some ethnic subpopulations are more predisposed to atypical gender-related body fat deposition. For instance, African-american and Hispanic (and Hispanic-american) women tend to accumulate more visceral fat (especially in abdominal area) than Caucasian women, who tend to deposit more subq fat in the gluteo-femoral (hip and thighs) region. Studies have demonstrated that this type of pattern is highly associated with reduced insulin sensitivity.

Hmm well if this is so labrat, would a male who stores more fat in the thighs, have more success in losing fat from the thighs by eating in a way, and using supplements in a way to increase insulin sensitivity?

What are some good ways to increases insulin sensitivity...i am eating only complex carbs and doing a carb cycling diet..that is good right? is it worth using any supplements such as cinnamon and vinegar on refeeds...or by using supplements do you stop your body being insulin sensitive by its own means?

Posted by: @ergoman500

The basic way to get rid of cellulite is to reduce subcutaneous fat while strengthening connective tissue at the same time.

In men, the "mattress phenomenon" (cellulite) - which is revealed when the connective tissue is pinched, is frequently associated with a Testosterone deficiency.  (C. Scherwitz and O. Braun-Falco, "So called Cellulite," J. Dermatol Surg Oncol 4 (1978): 230-234.)

Both varicose veins and cellulite both are mainly caused by degradation of connective-tissue (corium). 85% of women respond with excellent results to combo's of the herbs discussed below with Centella Ext. being the most scientifically tested and validated overall.

Below are some therapies shown to reduce and prevent cellulite occurence...

Centella asiatica ext: 40 mg of triterpenes 3 times/day.
Aesculus hippocastanum ext: 30 mg of escin 3 times/day
Topical Escin: 1.5% 3 times/day
Topical Cola Vera ext. 1.5% 3 times/day
Topical Fucus vesiculosus: 3 times/day

A. Tenailleau, "On 80 cases of Cellulitis Treated with the Standardized
Extract of Centella asiatica," Gaz Med Fr 82 (1975): 4579-83.

Most researchers would prefer the terms dermo-panniculosis deformans and adiposis edematosa when referring to what we Americans call "cellulite". The corium (connective tissue structure between the dermis and subcutaneous "tissue") is stronger in men than in women.

As women age, the corium progressively becomes thinner and looser, allowing fat cells to migrate to this layer. As connective tissue walls between the fat cell "chambers" also thins, the fat-cell chambers then begin to hypertrophy greatly. Under a microscope, cellulite-like tissue has evidence of distended lymphatic vessels and also decreases in elastic fibers. In theory, there is some "congestion" of lymph fluid coupled with stress on the skin which may lead to the formation of "cellulite".

Im men aged 18-45 years old, the epidermis is thicker, the corium is thicker, the border "zone" of the corium has fewer fat cells, the subcutaneous tissue is thinner with tiny polygonal fat cell chambers along with criss-crossing connective tissue, and finally there is almost no evidence of "Status protrusis cutis" - or the "mattress phenomenon" in men compared to women.

Thiomucase, Nemectron, and Alec Eden-Slendertone all have been shown to be no more effective than a placebo cream when used on the skin long-term.

Centella asiatica ext: 40 mg of triterpenes 3 times/day.
Aesculus hippocastanum ext: 30 mg of escin 3 times/day
Topical Escin: 1.5% 3 times/day
Topical Cola Vera ext. 1.5% 3 times/day
Topical Fucus vesiculosus: 3 times/day

what products have this/these ingrediants? which do you recommend?

This is interesting. Im guessing that the avant guys have seen this already. FUnny how they say, everything but yohimbine works.

Obes Res. 1995 Nov;3 Suppl 4:561S-568S. Related Articles, Links

Topical fat reduction.

Greenway FL, Bray GA, Heber D.

Department of Medicine, UCLA School of Medicine, Torrance, CA, USA.

The fat on women's thighs is more difficult to mobilize due to increased alpha-2 adrenergic receptor activity induced by estrogen. Lipolysis can be initiated through adipocyte receptor stimulation (beta adrenergic) or inhibition (adenosine or alpha-2 adrenergic) or by inhibition of phosphodiesterase. Since many women desire regional thigh fat loss, a series of clinical trials were initiated using one thigh as a double-blinded control. Trial #1: Five overweight women had injections of isoproterenol at intervals around the thigh three times a week for 4 weeks with diet and walking. Trial #2: Five overweight woman had ointment containing forskolin, yohimbine and aminophylline applied to the thigh five times a week for 4 weeks after hypertonic warm soaks with a diet and walking. Trial #3: Eighteen overweight women were divided into three groups of six and trial #2 was repeated with each agent alone vs. placebo using forskolin, yohimbine or aminophylline in separate ointments. Trial #4: Thirty overweight women had 10% aminophylline ointment applied to the thigh five times a week for 6 weeks with diet and walking. Chemistry panel, theophylline level and patch testing were performed. Trial #5: Twelve women had trial #4 repeated with 2% aminophylline cream without a diet or walking. Trial #6: Trial #5 was repeated with 0.5% aminophylline cream. All trials except yohimbine ointment gave significantly more girth loss from the treated thigh (p < 0.05 to p < 0.001). Chemistry panel showed no toxicity. Theophylline was undetectable and patch testing was negative. We conclude that topical fat reduction for women's thighs can be achieved without diet or exercise.

Int J Obes. 1991 Sep;15(9):561-5. Related Articles, Links

Yohimbine does not affect fat distribution in men.

Sax L.

Department of Family and Community Medicine, Lancaster General Hospital, PA 17603.

Forty-seven men with a mean age of 42 years were assigned in random, double-blind fashion to treatment with either placebo or high-dose yohimbine (peak dose, 43 mg/day). Thirty-three subjects completed the six-month program. Variables assessed throughout the study included: body weight and body mass index; total cholesterol and HDL; body fat; and fat distribution as measured both by waist-to-hip ratio and by CT scan. Treatment with yohimbine had no effect on any variable in comparison with the control group.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

We discussed these studies quite a bit 3-4 years ago.

Those studies just measured girth, not fat loss. The ones that showed girth loss are diuretics. Yohimbine causes water retention.

Not the world's best studies.

"The corium progressively becomes thinner and looser.. Under a microscope, "cellulite-like" tissue has evidence of distended lymphatic vessels and also decreases in elastic fibers..."

Some research has demonstrated that the use of topical Retinol + other substances, over a ~5-7 month period of time - has resulted in very mild increases in the elasticity of dermis/corium along with decreased subcutaneous adipose tissue (in women under ~45 years of age). Much more research needs to be done in this area IMHO...

so overall you guys would recommend lipoderm Y over absolved for women's tummy fat, thighs, love handles? i've read up about this and the reviews i've read was still mixed. then again it was mostly men who replied

what worked best for you guys? and how long did it take using it to see some visible results?

cheers!