tendonitis healing procedures

For what it's worth, I've developed a chronic case of what I believe to be tendonitis that affects my shoulder and upper bicep area, and I've found DMSO (and to a lesser extent, topical MSM) combined with either ibuprofen or naproxen can tempoarirly relieve the pain. I'm currently experimenting with a popular herbal NSAID product that begins with a "z," and so far, it seems to work almost as well as the ibuprofen and naproxen.

scott:

thanks, but i don't plan on having surgery. firstly i can't afford it, nor can i afford any kind of time off work. bummer huh

cardinal:

again thanks, but relief isn't really the problem. i can smear a ton of anti-inf cream on it any time of the day, and the pain goes away, but mechanically i'm still crippled in that area (like i said before, can't go past ~ 40 degrees).

liorrh

cheers again another massively informative post. i guess my argument with the pharmacist had left me a little doubtful. in retrospect though, i believe that she's just another dishonest medicinal professional, probably more enthusiastic about making money than helping people. i contacted a bunch of other pharmacists, none of them had curcumin powder (one tried suggesting tumeric powder ). one had access to compound making facilities, so he's getting back to me on whether he can get/make any nosi's for me. i'll let you know how i go with essentially what you've prescribed me

Bamputin,

I was not suggesting surgery, I just refer to the supplement regimen as a post-op regimen as I use it for those patients. The supplement regimen may very well help your tendonitis heal. If you read the info you will see a link to the rugged forums where someone named Tony has been using it on his longstanding tendonitis which is on its way to being healed (you will have to stop exercisng that area for 4-6 weeks).

hm.. high dose of wobenzyme the key?

Wobenzyme: twice per day, 3 tablets 45 minutes before eating (on an empty stomach)

Multi Vitamin: 1 per day

Vitamin C: 2000 mg per day

GLA: 2 caps which give me 600 mg of GLA for the day.

EFA's: 3 grams of EPA/DHA

not sure what the difference between GLA and EFA (EPA/DHA) is. can i just take flax oil?

i haven't been exercising the affected area for over six months now.

Posted by: @bamputin

hm.. high dose of wobenzyme the key?

Wobenzyme: twice per day, 3 tablets 45 minutes before eating (on an empty stomach)

Multi Vitamin: 1 per day

Vitamin C: 2000 mg per day

GLA: 2 caps which give me 600 mg of GLA for the day.

EFA's: 3 grams of EPA/DHA

not sure what the difference between GLA and EFA (EPA/DHA) is. can i just take flax oil?

i haven't been exercising the affected area for over six months now.

is there any evidnece beside "broteligence" that specific supplement regimen?

not that i know of

I'm not attached to any particular regimen and am certainly not trying to peddle anything.

I've used this regimen in about 10 patients who had various surgeries (hip replacement, jaw surgery, cardiac bypass....). They all healed significantly faster then their doctors expected. The proteolytic enzymes have been used sucessfully with people I have personal knowledge of with various conditions ranging from gout to fractures. So I know this is effective at decreasing inflammation and swelling and helping healing. (search on proteolytic enzymes if you have questions about their effectiveness).

If you are short of money a good multiple (zinc is important in wound healing), 500 mg vitamin c twice a day and the wobenzyme would probably be a good start (push the dose on the wobenzyme thought minimum 6/day in divided doses, 9 would be better).

If you have more money, adding other factors which will decrease inflammation e.g. fish oil, GLA, or even sesamin (thanks Par) might very well add some additional benefit. The conversion of flax to EPA is slow and inefficient so it may add some, but not as much as Fish oil.

Short of double blind studies this is just educated guess work--however what I doing seems to work. If you have any suggestions for improvement, please let me know.

Ive used myself wobenzyme for rehab but havent seen anything but ancedotal evidnece, not even a hypothisized mechanism of action. enzymes to reduce inflammation? EFA's and NOSI's are much more effective and cost-efficcient

Posted by: @liorrh

Ive used myself wobenzyme for rehab but havent seen anything but ancedotal evidnece, not even a hypothisized mechanism of action. enzymes to reduce inflammation? EFA's and NOSI's are much more effective and cost-efficcient

Did the wobenzyme help you or the people you used it on (and if not how did you dose it i.e. number of caps/day and was it taken on an empty sstomach)?

THis thread:

http://www.ruggedmag.com/forums/index.php?...?showtopic=6187

has some info on the supposed mechanism of wobenzyme. Sounds like handwaving to me, but it does work (I've pesonally experienced it after arthoscopic knee surgery) Oh FYI: I don't use wobenzyme, I use cytolyse, but that is only sold to docs, and it is a similar product (the person on the rugged thread used wobenzyme).

Here is an article on proteolytic enzymes for many uses:

http://www.doctormurray.com/articles/Penzymes.htm

Oh and what is "NOSI" not NSAIDS I hope.

Nitric Oxide Synthase Inhibitors. see references above

I was a regular at rugged and even in t-mag when threads of magical wobenzyme appeared. so I tried it. did you use JUST wobenzyme as a supplement for your knee? I mean, ancedotal evidence should be avoided at all costs...

enzymes are good for a shitload of other things though.

liorrh,

I just took my usual supplements after my arthroscopic surgery--no enzymes. I had relatively minor surgery (lateral release) and had relatively no pain, and didn't think I would need the enzymes. Then about...I think 4-5 days after surgery I developed this weird stinging pain which was intense. Something to do with extravasated blood in the soft tissues (there was blood in the superficial soft tissues of the whole leg). Anyway I then added the cytolyse (that's the product I use. Sold by typical MLM company alas) and by the end of the day it became obvious it was working, there was a significant difference in pain.

I also know of a number of people who have just taken this (cytolyse) and experienced decreases in swelling with gout, fractures, and surgery. So I know the stuff works, even if the given explanation sounds strange. It's like I use a very simple regimen for acute illnesses e.g. sore throats, colds, etc. I know that probably >90% of people who take it will get better dramatically faster, even if I don't know the mechanism (if you're curious the regimen is basically 1 gram of ascorbate form vitamin c/hour + some herbs which may or may not add anything). I've posted the reference list from the cytolyse website below. A few look legit.

And it doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not. I was just trying to pass on some information that I've found helpful.

Oh and it obviously doesn't work if the person is still causing damage. The biggest problem is often to get the person to rest the injured part long enough for the stuff to work.

Thanks for the info on Nitric Oxide Synthase Inhibitors.

Scott

References:
1. Balch, James and Phyllis Balch. Prescription for Nutritional Healing. Garden City Park NY: Avery Publishing Group, Inc., 1990. p 6, 55, 59.
2. Blonstein, J.L. Oral enzyme tablets in the treatment of boxing injuries. Practitioner 1967; 198:547.
3. Boyne, P.S. and Medhurst, H. Oral antiinflammatory enzyme therapy in injuries in professional footballers. Practitioner 1967; 198:543.
4. Bucci, L.R. and Stiles, J.C. Spors injuries and proteolytic enzymes. Today's Chirop. 1987; 16(1):31.
5. Cichoke, A.J. and Marty, L. The use of proteolytic enzymes with soft tissue athletic injuries. Am. Chirop. 1981; Sep/Oct:32.
6. Colgan, Michael. Optimum Sports Nutrition. New York: Advanced Reasearch Press, 1993. p 196.
7. Craig, R.P. The quantitative evaluation of the use of oral proteolytic enzymes in the treatment of sprained ankles. Injury 1975; 6(4):313.
8. Dietrich, R.E. Oral proteolytic enzymes in the treatment of athletic injuries: a double-blind study. Penn Med J 1965; 68:35.
9. Kleine, M.W. Introduction to systemic enzyme therapy and results of experimental trials, in Sports, Medicine and Health. Hermans, G.P.H. and Mosterd, W.L., Eds. Excerpta Medica, Amsterdam; 1990. P 1131.
10. Mindell, Earl. Earl Mindell's Vitamin Bible. New York: Warner Books, Inc., 1991. p 87.
11. Tenney, Louise. Today's Herbal Health, 3rd Edition. Provo, UT: Woodland Books, 1992, p 91, 140.

thank you for the references scott - I'll read up

dont take it personal , the "belief" thing. I'm sure you mean good, but Hey, I dont know you and must be carefull, as I've learned not to trust 90% of unreferenced forum posts.

liorrh,

No need to take anything on faith. One can find an article showing anything (and things can work even if we can't find articles to back them up). If you run across a situation where the other "tricks" you know aren't working, give it a try. The only ABSOLUTE contra-indication is if the patient has an ulcer or bad frequent heartburn. If the patient develops abdominal discomfort I would stop the enzmes also (not very common). Other then that the only thing to lose is a little money (little being relative to the costs of injuries which hang on like Tony who had the tendonitis).

Scott

OK I researched and the only thing I saw (only half the references although I have the colgan book and will chechk) was helping muscular injuries like DOMS. that I allready knew, and it may be worth to get for that. but no mention of tendon, ligament or cartilage for now. contra-indication? 100$ for the big wobenzyme bottle. thats my contraindication.

liorrh,

1. If you have alternatives that work as well --use them.

2. There are lots of other proteolytic enzyme preps besides wobenzyme (many cheaper).

3. The $100 bottle (iherb) of wobenzyme holds 800 tabs and is enough for between 2-3 months. Why are you buying enough for that long? Most people I've treated this with only take it for a few weeks...or at most e.g. 4-6 weeks for chronic conditions e.g. Tony's tendonitis.

You get the last word on this topic. I'm done.