new member question: Lipoderm-Y and exercise train

I answered 1 and 2 in the other place you asked it, in case you have not yet seen that.

As far as # three, first of all, you are paying her, not vice-versa, so if she is reluctant to do what you want, get a new trainer.

I would also suggest you ask her how much research she has done on your condition. I would also inquire wioth management at you gym as to whether they have any trainers with education and/or experience with this.

As far as what you can do, fish oils and SesaThin should be helpful, as should anti-oxidants (especially E, C, and NAC)

Thanks for your help.

What type of fish oil would you recommend? I recently started taking Sundown's Salmon oil. The directions say 2 softgels 3x day.

2 softgels = salmon oil concentrate of 2g (2000mg) with EPA of 360mg and DHA of 240 mg. Is this enough? Which is more important? the EPA or DHA? I heard (somewhere) that you need at least 10, 000mg daily to see an effect. Any recommendations?

I also ordered Phenogen and am using it. Would you recommend SesaThin instead or should I add it to the Phenogen/ H.E.A.T. combo?

Thanks again! I am new to this type of supplementation.

Posted by: @luckylondon

What type of fish oil would you recommend?  I recently started taking Sundown's Salmon oil. The directions say 2 softgels 3x day.

2 softgels = salmon oil concentrate of 2g (2000mg) with EPA of 360mg and DHA of 240 mg.  Is this enough?  Which is more important?  the EPA or DHA?  I heard (somewhere) that you need at least 10, 000mg daily to see an effect.  Any recommendations?

luckylondon, the minimum recommendations for fishie oil caps are 6g ED, assuming 180mgEPA, 120mgDHA /1g cap, so it sounds as though you are on the right track with those you already have

Some folk take more, some use more concentrated forms, and some prefer swanky enteric-coated varieties that avoid the fishy burps. I think that in general though a generic brand and 6g is widely accepted as more than good enough ... and much more than a "nice to have", it's a mandatory!

Sorry, I'm no good with your other questions. Someone else will help out (general q's may serve you better than the women's forum however). Good luck with it all.

Thanks so much for your help with the fish oil question. I understand it helps with weight loss and likely has other benefits (I just don't know what they are specifically!). You mentioned a pill that avoids the fishy after taste...do you know what that is?

As far as the supplement questions, I am having trouble finding an answer as to what I should purchase. But I don't want to post the same question(s) in multiple spots, especially if they are pretty basic and might be obvious to others.

Thanks again!

In terms of the fishy burps/after taste, you have a couple of options. Are you taking them with food? It gets better after a few weeks (for most), I taste nothing these days Which is just as well, since option 2 doesn't seem available down here in the wastelands of Aus - I've read on here about enteric-coated capsules from Sam's Club (no idea what that is though). Unlike regular clear caps, they are coated (and apparently smell/taste like candy. No chewing though!) Should avoid the problem if you are struggling with those you have.

I've just run a search on here (not having a dig, but you'll find it really useful in terms of explaining the benefits you are looking to understand), and found a different dosage recommendation from Par:

As far as actual fish oils, I would go with EPA+DHA=1-2g per day for ectos, EPA+DHA=3-4g for mesos, 5-10 for endos, and EPA+DHA=10+ for for the obese.

Note he is not talking about total fish oil, i.e. the 1g capsules that you have each contain 300mg EPA+DHA so adjust accordingly. And you know to half the dose when taking Sesathin?

Novo,

Thank you so much for your help. If I understand correctly, my fish oil caps that have EPA+DHA= 600mg = .6g Therefore, I would need to take 10-20 ish capsules daily if I am an endo? I am not sure what my body type is, BTW. I am obviously new to this! I carry weight all over, not really an apple or a pear. I have a medium frame. I am currently 149 lbs at 5'8'', down from 183 lbs. (hooray). At 140-150 lbs. I am fairly lean, but still have bf on buttocks, abs, arms, and back that I would love to get rid of (I am a size 8 ish at this weight). At 183 lbs, I was a size 14, never really fat (because I carry all over), just "bigger" (may be denial?)

Anyway, I am not currently taking Sesathin. I have read as much as I can on here and have posted some questions, and still can't seem to get straight what is the best approach for me to continue to build muscle, lose fat and get leaner.

Again, I know you may not have the "answers", but even your opinions are helpful.

I don't want to keep posting, since I think my questions are basic and obvious to others and I don't want to be a pest....I just want to know what to order because I need more Lipoderm!

This is what I am using now: I would love guidance, because I am feeling a little blind!

1. I have used Lipo-Y (loved it). But don't know if I should re-order the Lipo Ultra or the Lipo-Y or the Lipo-ODB? I am also trying Absolved and not sure if it is appropriate for me or not and if just Lipo on the abs is better for me? And if I use both, when to use each 1x daily, switch weekly, etc.

2. I have begun the Phenogen and H.E.A.T in the last 1 1/2 week, but I am not sure how much I need to take and when.

3. I am taking Salmon Oil (above) 2-3 x daily, aiming for 6 capsules daily.

4. Taking a multi for weight loss support (cheesy, but I really think the Dr. Phil multi-vitamins for weight loss work!)

5. I am taking 2 CortiSlim with meals.

6. I take Coral Calcium 3x daily as directed.

Diet:

Working well with low glycemic diet and calorie deficit.

Exercise:

Weight training at least 2-3x weekly focusing on 2 heavy sets of 6-12 reps to exhaustion.

Supplement Questions:

1. Is Sesathin a better option for me? What is the theory of adding Sesathin to Lipo Ultra?

2. Are you supposed to cycle these supplements or continue on them if you are not changing diet?

Again, I know you may not have the "answers", but even your opinions are helpful.

Thanks.

Well, sure I'm always happy to give my opinions - and I can certainly talk you through which products I've tried myself.

OK, you're fairly lean but want to drop further body fat, maintaining as much lbm as you can? In the same boat as you, I used SesaThin together with an EC stack (I'm in Australia, HEAT can't be imported down here). I followed standard dosage on Sesathin (3 x 1/4tsp), together with 6 fishie caps (mine are the same concentration as yours), and also used LipoDerm Ultra on my thighs. This was while following a carb cycling diet (Twin Peak's, you've taken a look at the Mind&Muscle articles? They are a great resource), and also training harder than I ever have before (umm, also Twin Peak's program. Seems I'm a groupie). Anyway, my point is that I can't isolate any single factor - but collectively, I'm happy with the results I saw.

I looked at your thread in Gen Q's, and saw Par recommended either SesaThin or PhenoGen, and HEAT. If I understand it right, PhenoGen's not ideal for dieters who are below their setpoint - do you know what weight/body composition you would be at 'naturally', are you leaner than that now? In which case, personally I'd go for SesaThin ... and if not, then PhenoGen.

Honestly, don't be shy to push your questions in the General forum - it's important you understand what you choose to take, and why. It's not 'pest' behaviour, trust me There IS a great deal of useful info already on the products however, as each product is launched a thread is started for questions about it (including really basic stuff) - it will take a while to get through, but is useful (and interesting) reading. If anything remains unanswered for you, post away. You will get an answer, definitely.

For example, PhenoGen Questions

Hope that helps in some way. Best of luck with everything, don't be shy to come back if I've been unclear.

Although supplements are important, I think before you start figuring out all the supplements to take you should get your diet in order. No supplement will work to its potential if your diet is not where it should be. Many people think they are eating healthy when in fact they are not. Too many ideas of what healthy is out there.

Then you should work on your training and make sure you are training hard enough for your goals and eating properly to supplement your training. Once you have those 2 things in order THEN you should worry about supplementation JMHO!

She's absolutely right (of course, I'd expect no less )

London, I made a huge ASSumption that you were already on top of diet and training, and maybe I was wrong? These will always be far and away the most significant determinant of any changes, and, however effective supplements may be ... they can only supplement consistent dedication to nutrition and workouts. Much advice here on both, should you need it

Jodi and Novo,

Thanks for your responses.

To answer the diet/training question.....they are in order to the best of my ability at this time.

Diet...I have lost 33 pounds so far that I had gained a couple years ago during a stressful period. I am entering my thin zone (for me)...I have lost the weight slowly over 7 months. I have been thinner before and would like to keep losing, but I think if I just ate and didn't worry about it, I would be heavier (so, below my set point?) I want to keep dieting to lose another 15-20 lbs. or whatever is realistic. I have to see as I get lower.

I have some physical problems that cause some restrictions, so I am doing the best I can and so far, it is working. I am following the Nutrisystem program. It is prepackaged food with a specific protein/fat/carb ratio that is designed with low glycemic index foods to maintain healthy blood sugar. The program is eating 6x a day with added veggies, fruits, dairy, etc. Ideally, I would like to cook and prepare my own food, but the convenience factor of Nutrisystem has been what has made it successful for me. I am in grad school and work part time and have a clinical rotation, etc. So I have no time to cook consistently. Making veggies is enough for me.

I also have fibromyalgia and rheumatoid arthritis, which affects my energy level. I feel better with strength training, but if I push too hard, I get really worn out for days and can barely function. I have been working with a trainer, who really understands me and my body by now and we work hard to find a good moderate way to push me hard enough to progress, but not to crush myself so that I am unable to work out for days.

Therefore, I believe my diet is in order as I have a good fat/carb/protein ratio and it is working and I am losing weight. I don't plan to change it anytime soon.

Training. I shoot for at least 2x a week weight training. Sometimes more, if possible. Honestly, I do as much as I possibly can while still functioning in other life areas. I have convinced my trainer to do lower reps to exhaustion because I really see definition much faster that way. I am doing 2 sets of 8-12 reps to exhaustion during the last 5 weeks and it is really working! Previously we did 2 sets with more reps, and the higher weight less reps is so much more effective for me. I have increased definition and am appearing leaner. Any more sets is just too tiring for me.

That is why I am interested in supplementation. If I can get any help in burning fat and helping me see results, I am interested.

I am planning to order Lipo Ultra and use Sesathin and H.E.A.T and continue with fish oil. I am glad to see this has worked for you, Novo. I really appreciate you sharing your experience.

Par mentioned that he would not recommend Lipoderm until below 15% bf. I am not sure of my bf, but it is probably not that low. However, I have seen good results with Lipoderm Y and a reduction in buttocks/thighs that I think is due to more than just diet/training, so I would like to keep using the product and would like to try the Ultra this time to help with cellulite.

If you see anything you think I can/should change, please let me know. I am new to the boards, but I am very interested in health, nutrition and learning more about dynamics of muscle building. I am excited to learn more.

London

If you are seeing result with your current training program then stick with it. Don't fix what isn't broken. The nutrition on the other hand............well, I'm really biting my tounge on this one.

Nutrisystem is nothing more than portioned meals with not enough protein, healthy carbs and healthy fats. I will stop now because I tend to let my mouth get the best of me and if you are happy with it for now then stick with it.

Warning this is long....and I haven't figured out how to quote

Jodi and Novo,

Thanks again for the help. I do plan to stick with the diet I am using for now, since it fits best with my lifestyle now, and since I have been successful in losing weight and want to continue losing weight. But I plan to look at the Keto TKD and UD 2.0-- do you use these?

I honestly don't know my set point and I can't seem to figure it out. I think I am an endo-meso, and my body likes to be bigger than I like it to be , but I am not sure I am below setpoint now (probably though).

As far as supplements, I now have: Phenogen (1/3 bottle remaining), H.E.A.T., Leptigen Rebirth (new can), Sesathin, (new bottle), Absolved (1/3 bottle remaining) and Lipoderm Ultra (new).

Questions:

I am a little confused on what and how to take each. The Leptigen Rebirth is 30 min before meals. I think I am in the 20-25% bf category(....estimating closer to 25% since I am 149 lbs. and 5'8'') therefore the dose (1 scoop) is x3. Do you know if this means 3 scoops 3x daily with meals? Or 1 scoop 3x a day with meals? And my calorie deficit is around 400 cal/ daily with diet alone (on avg.) I have lost about .9 lbs. per week averaged.

Secondly, I am excited about Sesathin. I know it says 1/2 tsp. or 1/2 cap. I am not sure what cap they are referring to. The cap seems small and the consistency of Sesathin appears that it would ooze out and much of it would get stuck in the cap wasting it (does this make sense?). I recieved the dropper type oral thing with Sesathin....is the dropper the best way to measure it?

What do I mix Sesathin with? Or do I just shoot it in my mouth directly? I feel like I read somewhere to take it mixed with milk, but that might have been someone's preference. Am I supposed to cycle this? If so, how?

Thirdly, should I continue Phenogen (since I have it) with the Leptigen Rebirth? Again, do I cycle the Leptigen Rebirth and/or Phenogen? How?

Topically, I used Lipoderm-Y and loved it. I have now received Lipoderm Ultra. I have also been using Absolved-- not sure which is best for my abs-- Lipo Ultra or AbSolved. What is best approach to rotating product? Should I alternate daily, weekly, or one bottle at a time? Do I need to take time off from them?

Finally, I have a diet related question. I know this is super basic, but I am still learning (slowly).... what is the benefit of carb cycling and who is it best for? What is the purpose of bulking (lean v. regular) and cutting? After reading, I see that bulking can add mass that will show as more definition when cutting. Is this for contests only? It makes me extremely nervous to think of adding weight when I am trying to lose it. I would like more definition, but I am sure I need to get leaner first.

Ooops....one more....what is a refeed and is it useful for everyone? How often is it used and how long does it last? What is the point?

Again, Novo and Jodi, I realize you don't have all the answers. But, you have been so helpful and it is nice to have guidance from women.

Novo, I saw your pictures posted-- you look awesome! You really changed your body! Is this recent or have you been training and dieting cycling for awhile? Is this your first picture post? You have many fans! hee hee. Anyway, obviously what you are doing is working and it seems that I am at a similar point to your starting (well....), so whatever you are doing has been successful....so based on your experience....what do you recommend? Oh, and what is the benefit of the lean bulk that everyone is recommending for you?

Would pictures be helpful? The thought is mortifying, but I guess I can suck it up if it will help!

-London

P.S. Yes, I am taking 3 fish oil capsules 3x daily

OK, how about I tackle your easiest question and tell you what I have done ... since this also answers some of your other questions?

Finally, I have a diet related question.  I know this is super basic, but I am still learning (slowly)....  what is the benefit of carb cycling and who is it best for?  What is the purpose of bulking (lean v. regular) and cutting?  After reading, I see that bulking can add mass that will show as more definition when cutting.  Is this for contests only?  It makes me extremely nervous to think of adding weight when I am trying to lose it.  I would like more definition, but I am sure I need to get leaner first.

Ooops....one more....what is a refeed and is it useful for everyone? How often is it used and how long does it last?  What is the point?

OK, here's the simple answer. Your body doesn't want you to get leaner - it likes you to have plenty of fat around in the event of starvation, especially women ... since the very survival of the species depends on our ability to have damn babies (it doesn't realise we no longer live in caves ). So it's going to fight your efforts. When your diet, metabolism will slow, and there will be many hormonal and chemical changes in your body in an effort to hang onto the fat (I'm simplifying this based on my own understanding as you can tell!). These changes will do exactly what your body wants - namely slow down the fat loss. Refeeds are an attempt to counter this, a short (day or two) period of OVER-eating - think of it as reassuring your body all is well. You won't lose further fat while you do this, but you will speed things up afterwards. It's why cyclical dieting (low calorie, cycled with higher calorie periods) is generally considered superior to a constant calorie cut (weight loss invariably slows horribly here) ... at least for those already quite lean (the over-fat don't have such a problem with the slowdowns). Best thing you can do is read Par Deus' Leptin series of articles in M&M - LeptiGen was born in an attempt to address these very issues.

This is also the basis of carb cycling - it alternates days with no carbs, days with low carbs - and the 'overfeeding' of high carb days. Hence no need to worry about refeeds - all the thinking is done for you, just follow the plan.

Hope all that helps in some way. Look forward to hearing how well you are doing.