Help with fat loss

Posted by: @Godmode

I am designing a weight-loss plan for a friend.  Some information: About 37%? body fat (6', 220 lbs), 21 year old female with hypothyroidism, currently has "normal" thyroid levels at 125 mg a day of Synthroid (been taking it for about 14 months).  Also currently taking birth control, .  Also has Celiac's disease (wheat gluten allergy) but that is most likely immaterial.  Going off or switching meds at this point is unlikely to fly with her.

She had been having serious problems with weight loss before asking someone for help, but I am asking for some suggestions on what we can do better.  I have her doing HIIT cardio and resistance training, plus she walks a lot.  Almost every weight loss supp says "do not use if taking thyroid medication" but I convinced her to try Leptigen Rebirth and it has, at least, helped her deal with food cravings (she's eating about 1500 cal a day and not having any problems).  Weight loss has been slow but steady, and in the past 6 months she's dropped from 245 to 220.  She was 160 only 4 years ago, and that is the ultimate goal.

Do you all think it is safe for her to continue using Rebirth?  What else can I do to make her weight loss more rapid?  I know of no other person that I've ever met or am ever likely to meet who is as dedicated as she is to this goal - but the frustration from the slow weight loss is enough to drive anyone into a fit of despair.  She's often times flirted with the idea of getting calories as low as 500 a day, and apparently has done so against my advice from time to time.

I'm ultimately trying to devise a good stack and diet for her.  I have her taking 10 fish oil caps a day with her leptigen.  Diet is about 50-40-10 carbs-protein-fat.

Any suggestions are welcome, I know many of you are not experts on hypothyroidism, but I could use some insight on what supps are useful.  She's very willing to buy supps, but questions their efficacy.

take small dosage of t3 or triac with your T4

Posted by: @Godmode

I am designing a weight-loss plan for a friend.  Some information: About 37%? body fat (6', 220 lbs), 21 year old female with hypothyroidism, currently has "normal" thyroid levels at 125 mg a day of Synthroid (been taking it for about 14 months).  Also currently taking birth control, .  Also has Celiac's disease (wheat gluten allergy) but that is most likely immaterial.  Going off or switching meds at this point is unlikely to fly with her.

She had been having serious problems with weight loss before asking someone for help, but I am asking for some suggestions on what we can do better.  I have her doing HIIT cardio and resistance training, plus she walks a lot.  Almost every weight loss supp says "do not use if taking thyroid medication" but I convinced her to try Leptigen Rebirth and it has, at least, helped her deal with food cravings (she's eating about 1500 cal a day and not having any problems).  Weight loss has been slow but steady, and in the past 6 months she's dropped from 245 to 220.  She was 160 only 4 years ago, and that is the ultimate goal.

Do you all think it is safe for her to continue using Rebirth?  What else can I do to make her weight loss more rapid?  I know of no other person that I've ever met or am ever likely to meet who is as dedicated as she is to this goal - but the frustration from the slow weight loss is enough to drive anyone into a fit of despair.  She's often times flirted with the idea of getting calories as low as 500 a day, and apparently has done so against my advice from time to time.

I'm ultimately trying to devise a good stack and diet for her.  I have her taking 10 fish oil caps a day with her leptigen.  Diet is about 50-40-10 carbs-protein-fat.

Any suggestions are welcome, I know many of you are not experts on hypothyroidism, but I could use some insight on what supps are useful.  She's very willing to buy supps, but questions their efficacy.

What does her diet look like though? What are the carb sources? If she is doing a PWO spike, I'd have her stop that and go with oats instead. How much cardio? How many meals per day?

Jodi's on the right track.

Make sure she's got the basic foundation:

- 1g/day of calcium
- 10g/day of fish oil

From there, supplement-wise, I would recommend Rebirth, and that she start either drinking or supplementing with green tea. Rebirth is perfectly acceptable in light of her condition: it is not meant to modulate thyroid activity in any way, shape, or form, is not vasoconstrictive, and will not unduly elevate heart-rate, blood-pressure, etc.

I've been through an experimental T3 spurt (which I regret), but it has gotten me well-versed in hyper and hypothyroidism, so if she has any specific questions, I should be able to field them (although I obviously am not an MD).

In regards to diet, she should be eating primarily lean protein sources and vegetables. If anything I would increase her dietary fat intake (olive oil and fish oil being my two preferential dietary fat sources), and lower carbohydrates slightly. And again, as Jodi has mentioned: these should (re: ALL) be coming from low-insulemic/glycemic carbohydrates, so in other words: beans & legumes, yams & sweet potatoes, oatmeal and oat bran.

At her weight--coupled with the above--I don't think she's in the trained state to handle more than 6 or so workouts per week. I would have her doing something like: 2-3 strength training sessions, and 3-4 cardio sessions (a little anaerobic work will obviously be beneficial, but I think significant HIIT unnecessary: she will progress well doing primarily drawn-out aerobic work--ideally fasted in the morning).

What's a good calorie goal for her? She doesn't have a lot of LBM that she's trying to preserve, so how safely can she lower her calories, especially with Rebirth? What would be a better ratio do you think, 30-50-20 carbs-protein-fat?

How about: oatmeal for breakfast (after workout), a mixed green salad with a bit of with chicken and fat-free cheese twice a day, bowl of meat-free chili, another bowl of oatmeal at some point, fat-free cottage cheese before bed (modelled loosely after cutting diets I've followed in the past). This is something close to what she's eating now, with some tweaks.

Could Sesathin help, in place of some of the fish oil?

In regard to not being an MD - her endocrinologist is probably the worst doctor I've ever heard of, half the time he's not there and he's very curt with her questions about weight loss, and she's not the kind of person who will demand to know the answer to questions. So thanks for your help.

Any other thoughts on adding T3 in addition to the levothyroxine she's taking? That might be a stretch for me, she's afraid of things that might effect her treatment. At least now she's able to lose weight at all, albeit very slowly. How quickly can she safely lose weight? I put on and lose weight very quickly and easily. That's why she came to me, but I'm at a bit of a loss due to the conditions..

For the past 3 months she's been doing 45 minutes to an hour on the elliptical machine as her morning workout, 6 days a week. The HIIT and strength training are things she's been doing with me, and she's responding to it I think - her heart seems to be in better shape, anyway. Heart's definitely not something she lacks.

SesaThin would most definitely help.

That said, diet is your key, and you haven't given us a sense of what she eats, and whether she cheats. Get her on cyclical diet as well.

How about: oatmeal for breakfast (after workout), a mixed green salad with a bit of with chicken and fat-free cheese twice a day, bowl of meat-free chili, another bowl of oatmeal at some point, fat-free cottage cheese before bed

Right now she's eating oatmeal in the morning after her workout with an apple (get rid of that?), 2 salads with chicken and fat-free cheese and olive oil, couple bowls of vegetable soup with no potatoes, turkey or chicken with green beans or carrots around dinner, and fat-free cottage cheese before bed. She's generous with the portions enough to get around 300 calories average from those meals..

As far as weather or not she cheats, I can't say. I've sometimes suspected it, because it seems as though she would HAVE to be losing weight faster than she is, but the dedication and emotion she shows in this tells me she's not cheating.

The only other things I can think of that might be effecting it are the fact that she almost never sleeps and is under constant stress. Obviously fixing these would help, but I don't know how much that's a factor. I think if she can just start losing weight more consistently, easier sleep will follow.

Try to make sure each meal has protein in every meal. It sounds like her first meal doesn't have any and the veggie soup needs protein as well. She shouldn't be lifting on an empty stomach. Divide her carbs out into smaller portions throughout her meals. IOW oats with meal one and then the apple with meal 2 or 3 instead of it all in one meal.

You might want to consider some melatonin to help her sleep as well.

Thanks again for the advice here. An update from the past 2 weeks: she is losing weight pretty rapidly now (8 lbs), and hopefully she can keep that up. I am very happy with her progress - I'm not sure what exactly has helped the most, but what she's doing is working.

Her diet is about 60-20-20 now, protein-carbs-fat, on some days, while on other days she eats no carbs at all and its closer to 75-5-20. She's able to stick to 5 or 6 meals / day. I think its hard for her to eat a lot of low-GI carbs on the go (very active with school and work) so she's just been cutting them out. She also hates sweet potatoes (I didn't even know this was possible) so that limits her. Her energy levels have been high though, which is great. She is starting to enjoy weightlifting, which she does 3 times a week. She does cardio every morning (fasted) - drawn-out type stuff, sometimes for several hours. As long as she's sticking with it I don't think there's any reason to change it. We went on a run yesterday and I definitely think her cardiovascular health has been improving the past few months.

Supplement wise, she's taking 10g fish oil daily, 5 servings leptigen rebirth, several cups of green tea, 1.5 ml sesathin, 1g calcium (12 hours from her synthroid), and an opti-women multi.

She has a blood test today to check her thyroid levels, hopefully everything is good.

Only think I can complain about is that I can't get her to drink enough water. She complains about having to go to the bathroom too often.. I'd say she probably only drinks 1/2 gal/day.

Would HEAT be okay for her to supplement with? E/C?

H.E.A.T. would be safer for her than E/C (less vasoconstrictive). I'm not convinced she's ready (or needing) a thermogenic just yet, but if you were seriously looking to further expedite the process you could probably start her on a low dose of H.E.A.T. and see how she responds (and then pyramid as per her reactions & needs for energy/appetite suppresion).

Thanks, last week I started her on 1 HEAT twice a day and she's reported being slightly less hungry. I'm afraid her calories are sometimes dipping into the dangerously low category though, especially when she's on the move all day. She seems healthy and energetic enough, so I won't worry too much for now.

Just a general question for my own personal edification.. why is it that hypothyroid patients, even on hormone therapy who report normal thyroid hormone levels, still have such trouble losing weight? Like it can almost be impossible even on extremely low calorie diets it seems? It seems very common, I did a google search and there are so many forums and support groups. Thyroid disease sucks.

Would there be any physiological sense in having her take a week off from dieting? She is very motivated by results and doesn't seem to have any problem with the eating situation, especially with appetite suppressants in the form of heat, rebirth, and caffeine.. I just fear a plateau of weight loss is coming

She just asked me what I knew about DNP.

Hmm.

An update, for those of you who were dying to hear one... all none of you.

She's eating around 700 calories a day and has been steadily losing 3-4 lbs a week. She does cardio 6 days a week and does a full-body weightlifting session a la HST 3 days a week. She gets nearly 100% of her fats from supplemented fish oil 12/day and the rest of her food intake is lean protein whole food sources like egg whites and chicken breast, plus 1 cup of green vegetables each day. She bought a jar of natural peanut butter and dips a piece of celery in it each week as her only cheat. I am very proud of her progress, although I would expect the weight to be coming off even more rapidly at this level of fast. She still has plenty of energy, bouncy and bubbly as ever, so I'm not too worried for now.