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Anabolic Steroids & Prohormones
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Topic starter
20/07/2022 5:44 am
One of the threads here made me think about making a board comparison of those two.
I will start with my opinion
Testosteron is highly androgenic and highly anabolic. It stimulate growth through multiple passways. First of all, it has very high affinity to AR(androgen receptor), which is one of the major ways, but besides that it stimulates CNS(central nervous system) directly and via metabolite DHT, greatly increase IGH-1 level (well, in combo with Liquidex this effect will be reduced somewhat), increase appetite, attribute to increase in sattelite cells, greatly improve protein synthesis and nitrogen retention.
What addition of Liquidex will do? It will keep estrogen related side effects off, so no bloat, no fat accumulation in feminine areas, stronger CNS effect. Depending on the doses of Test and Liquidex, you can make it bulking, very effecient, with some little water retention, or pure cutting, staying hard as a rock, not gaining too much, but unlike with other staroids, actually still gaining some.
primobolan was designed to reduce androgenic side effects of Test, so obviously it's one of the mildest androgens. It's still androgen and is very good in AR-binding, and that's the primary way how it's build muscles, because it lack non-AR binding passways completely.
It doesn't aromatise, that's why everyone calls it "good hardening" steroid, which is very unaccurate, because all the steroids combining with strength training will make you harder, depending mainly on CNS stimulation. Oops, primo is not that strong in that aspect, it's kind of mediocre, actually. Test is a way better as hardening steroid. So, why so many athletes say Primo is good in hardening? Because drugs like Liquidex(Anastrozole) are fairly new to bb comunity and all the water retention caused by Test would never let anyone call it "hardening" before.
Isn't it time to wake up now, and face the new things?
As anabolic Primobolan is pretty good, according to Bill Roberts, it's as good as Deca, but in much higher dosages. Shit! Basically, to get anabolic effect of 1g of Test one has to use 1.5g of Primo.
All right, besides weak CNS stimulation, because it doesn't aromatise at all, there's next to nothing stimulation of IGF-1 release.
What is Primo is good at, besides making pharmaceptical companies reacher?
It has very little side effects, at low doses almost no suppression of HPTA, almost no effect on hair and prostate, no aromatisation.
Seems like Primo is a way weaker androgen and much weaker anabolic then Testosteron is. So, why people are so eager to spend so much more on Primo?
Because of no aromatisation, little suppression of HPTA, and myth.
Nowdays, the first problem is solved with aromatise inhibitors, like Arimidex,femara,aromasin, etc...
The second one doens't have to be solved, because if you want to grow, even on Primo you have to use high enough dose that will shut your HPTA down same as from Test. Just doesn't make sense.
The myth... well, I hope some will share their great experience with Primo in this thread.
Anyone willing to discuss all this?:)
20/07/2022 6:10 am
VERY GOOD POST!!
I agree with this theory 100%
Back in the days when all we had to combat the Estrogen build up of Test was only clomid or Nolvadex, Primo was better at attaining a hard, ripped look while retaining hardly any water. Now, with the introduction of Arimidex and Femara, Test has become the ULTIMATE gear.
For those looking to add slabs of lean body mass can use high quantities of Test and grow like hell. Those who are looking to cutt up can use a low dose of Test with the proper Anti-E's and look bigger and harder while reducing bodyfat.
Good read BJ.
20/07/2022 6:27 am
I've read in several places that Primo was hell on the hairline. Is this a myth or not?
20/07/2022 6:55 am
BJ,
I think we can all agree you are a TEST freak. Nothing wrong with that as TEST IS THE KING! However please remember that a professional never limits his tools chest to ONE TOOL. There are MANY benefits to using primo....no I have never used it....but I will not eliminate it just because it is not a POWER house drug like you seem to think all drugs should be. If one wants to acheive greatness all measures must be searched and used. I seperated the highlight and BENEFITS...yes BJ BENEFITS of primo for you. I would say the greatest being both a hard ripped look and very little effect on the NUTS! Use test and test only for the rest of your life...but me thing your nuts will just dither away. I for one like to know there are alternatives out there.
Primobolan Depot, although with a weaker effect than Deca-NPP, is a good basic steroid with a predominantly anabolic effect and, depending on the goal, can be effectively combined with almost any steroids. Those who would like to gain mass rapidly and do not have Deca available, can use Primo-Depot together with Sustanon 250 and Dianabol. Those who have more patience-or are afraid of potential side effects will usually be very satisfied with a stack of Primobolan Depot 200 mg/week and Deca-NPP 200-400 mg/week. We believe that the best combination is Primobolan Depot with Winstrol Depot. 200 - 400 mg/week is the normally used dosage of Primobolan Depot although there are enough athletes who inject a 100 mg ampule daily.
Primobolan Depot, like the oral acetate form, is not converted into estrogen, however, low water retention can occur, which is the reason why during preparations for a competition the injections are usually preferred.
Side effects with Primobolan Depot are minimal and manifest them-selves only rarely and in persons who are extremely sensitive.
Due to the androgenic residual effect, side effects include light acne, deep voice or increased hair growth. Primobolan Depot has even less in-fluence on the liver function than the oral form so that an increase of the liver's toxin values is extremely unlikely. The blood pressure, cholesterol level, HDL and LDL values, as with Primo tablets, usu-ally remain unaffected.
Primobolan Depot is generally the safest in-jectable steroid.
Athletes whose liver values strongly increase when taking anabolic steroids but who still do not want to give up their use, under periodical supervision of these values, can go ahead and try a stack of Primobolan Depot, Deca-NPP, and Andriol.
Primobolan Depot, like the tablets, has only a very small influence on the hypothalamohypophysial tes-ticular axis so that the body's own testosterone production is only reduced when very high dosages are taken over a prolonged period of time.
Women normally prefer the 25 mg tablets but there are several fe-male athletes who inject 100-200 mg or more Primobolan Depot/ week. 100 mg Primobolan Depot/week, combined with 50 mg Winstrol Depot/week, is usually an effective stack for many women and is tolerated well so that virilization symptoms are rarely ob-served. To avoid an undesired accumulation of androgens in the body women should pay attention that there are three to four days in between the relative injections. For competing female athletes this stack, however, is too weak. Primobolan Depot is often used in a dose of 100 mg/week to bridge over steroid breaks which, in our opinion, is not a good idea: The non-stop use of anabolic steroids has a strong negative influence on the body's own testosterone pro-duction and prevents the body from normalizing its functions. Dos-ages as low as 100 mg Primobolan Depot/week or 50 mg Deca-NPP/week (also often used for bridging) are non-toxic and mostly have no side effects. However, the effectiveness of such an intake must be strongly doubted since both compounds in this dos-age are much too weak in order to effectively counter affect the cata-bolic phase which begins in the steroid phases. Better results can usually be obtained with Clenbuterol without influencing the hor-mone system. Those who believe that in the "steroid free time" they must still take some "stuff " to bridge the usages should inject the long acting Testosterone enanthate (e.g. Testoviron Depot 250 mg/ ml) every two to three weeks.
20/07/2022 7:25 am
First of all let me say, I feel very strongly both ways. In truth, it depends on what your goals are and what you wish to accomplish. I have used both to good effect in the past.
Generally speaking I prefer test over any AAS. It is cheap, provides significant gains and the side effects are easily managed. I use test in every cycle that I do. On a cost benefit basis, it is cheaper to take a gram of test per week and 0.50 mg of arimidex per day, than use 1.5 mg of primo. In addition, the test will produce a greater increase in mass.
On the flDragon Pharma side, primo is a great drug for use in a bridge. At low doses, it will not supress natural test production and it will aid in the retention of mass like none of the other alternatives. Also, primo is the drug of choice for females. For them, a low dose of primo will give significant gains at a very reasonable price having few side effects.
One of my problems with using primo is the lack of high strength concentrations. If you want to use a gram of primo in a week, that means 10 CC's of oil weekly, just for the primo. If primo was available at 250 - 300 mg/ml, then it would be much more attractive for use.
My conclusion, if given the choice of using a human grade test or primo depot, I would definitely choose the test if I was bulking and probably if I was cutting. (In fact, I am cutting right now and am using 500 mg of test/wk in conjunction with winny & tren, and am not using primo.)
20/07/2022 7:52 am
Just because primo isn't as strong as test doesn't make it useless. It's just one more tool we've got available to us. Primo is good clean human-grade gear... and when used appropriately it can be very effective.
Topic starter
20/07/2022 8:13 am
It's not a question about being strong or weak, but effectiveness and usefulness.
It's a fact that Primo is much less androgenic and less anabolic then Test.
Yes, it doesn have JUST ONE adventage over Test, very little HPTA suppression, but at the dosages that won't promote practically any growth, unless you are begginer in lifting, or never lift before at all.
Dose of 200mg/week of Testosteron is used for Hormone Replacement Therapy, so what gains do you expect from 200-300mg/week of Primo? Anything above that will suppress HPTA as effectively as any other steroid.
I agree, it's nice for bridge, but for the price, it's better to get something more effective, well, practically anything.
Speaking of price....
And, what is this about clean human grade? How many brands of Test are clean, human grade, and not in pitifull 100mg/ml, but 250mg/ml? Too many to come up with number right away, and twice less expensive then "usefull tool"
Oh, well...
20/07/2022 8:29 am
NOW THIS IS WHAT I CALL A QUALITY READ!!
This is what a discussion should look like.
Kudos to Ironing, Flex and Tadger for the quality info.
20/07/2022 8:53 am
BJ,
Not everything is price related. I don't compare everything in life to a price ratio....I WILL agree that you are right from a price standpoint. You know if I am shopping for my dog I read the label and price shop getting the most for my money. However, when I am dealing with my body I buy what I want! It is like a fine wine compared to MD 20/20. Both will get you drunk and the price of one will hurt your wallet....but I enjoy the fine wine better.
Everyone has different and yet the same goals here on the board. We all want to get strong as hell and we lookin like a freak. However, for many people, gaining 30 lbs a cycle and then having to diet might not be the ideal situation. I am just glad there are alternatives that allow me to choose.
Topic starter
20/07/2022 9:15 am
Originally posted by Ironing
BJ,
Not everything is price related. I don't compare everything in life to a price ratio....I WILL agree that you are right from a price standpoint. You know if I am shopping for my dog I read the label and price shop getting the most for my money. However, when I am dealing with my body I buy what I want! It is like a fine wine compared to MD 20/20. Both will get you drunk and the price of one will hurt your wallet....but I enjoy the fine wine better.
Everyone has different and yet the same goals here on the board. We all want to get strong as hell and we lookin like a freak. However, for many people, gaining 30 lbs a cycle and then having to diet might not be the ideal situation. I am just glad there are alternatives that allow me to choose.
You know why you are saying this? Because, you just got your first Liquidex and have no idea what it is to bulk on Test, while using Liquidex.
My example: right now I'm using 2100mg/week of Test and 80mg/day of dbol as well as some Tren, which doesn't matter, because it doesn't aromatise.
Well, I use .3-.4ml of 4mg/ml Liquidex and I get no bloat, nothing, nada, zero!
Yes, gains are not the same as if I let it all aromatise, and start looking like Michelin man, but it's good, very good.
I used much lower dosege of Test with Liquidex for cutting before, and it kicks ass, much better then Primo.
I would like to hear your opinion after your cycle with Liquidex, bro. 🙂
20/07/2022 9:32 am
Mmmmmmmmmm....MD 20/20.
Anyone able to answer my hairloss question?
20/07/2022 9:53 am
Originally posted by newtogear
Anyone able to answer my hairloss question? [/B]
Different drugs give different people different side effects. That being said, I have used Primo twice and both times I lost a lot of hair.
20/07/2022 10:15 am
Originally posted by flexinnc
Different drugs give different people different side effects. That being said, I have used Primo twice and both times I lost a lot of hair.
Ouch!!
With Test, all you need to combat hair loss is a little Finasteride and Nizoral shampoo......spirolactone will help too.