Cycles for older members

This is my current plan. I am early in this cycle.....

D-bol....25mgs...2x a day....Weeks 1-4
Test Cyp...300mgs....2x a week...Weeks 1-5
EQ.......300mgs......2x a week......Weeks 1-5
Euro-Tech GH....4 i.u. ED....Weeks 6-18
5 days on 2 off
Glucophage....500mgs...3x a day....Weeks 6-18
T-3......12.5 mgs....2x a day.....Weeks 9-18
T-200.....200mgs....2x a week....Weeks 6-20
EQ.........200mgs....2x a week.....Weeks 6-18
Tren Enth..150mgs...2x a week...Week 6-15
Oral Winny..25mgs....2x a day....Weeks 12-16

Weeks 21-23 off
Week 24-26 PCT
Liquidex....(.25mg)....Weeks 1-27

The oils are BL.

Older guys should stay away from orals at least the 17aa's..

test/eq or test/deca are probably the best choice.. both EQ& deca have joint "lubing" effects due to increased collagen production..

I agree to a certain extent ironman, but I have mostly always stayed away from orals, and felt as if this type of cycle would benefit from their use.

Looks solid slammer, I may have to jot that cycle down...

I dunno if it worthy of that, but it is something that I am trying.....

Slam---You mention that it's a good idea for the "mature" bodybuilder to stay away from oral AS; however I think Anavar is still a good choice. It is relatively mild and seems to work well in hardening muscle and strength gains.

Probably the safest oral AS out there--if you can afford it......

Cheers

I totally agree thumpy, but the cost is outragous. Most do not consider Var an option, because of this.....

I'm 34 and my current cycle is

600 mg a wk BL supertest
600mg a wk BL deca
50 mg a day of BL A-bombs

all's good so far for me, i feel that if your someone that is experenced is AS and you know your body well enough it would be safe to use the big orals, and this is coming from someone that is four months out from have 2 heart attacks. attacks where caused by a build up of calcium , not from age, health or roid use.
it all goes back to what you would say for a newbie or for us old farts know your body and don't be stupid...my 2 cents

Be carefull to monitor your red blood cell #'s when running eq that high.. you may want to think about donating blood 1x per month to keep your rbc count in an acceptable range.. eq at that dosage will put you over anything that your docs will consider acceptable..

Slammer,

The cycle you list is fairly involved, would you recommend that to someone who was doing their first cycle?

or is that really a cycle for a more experienced user with some prior cycle experience?

Tex

Because of the way I posted it, it seems elaborate, but it is really not. I would not recommend it yet, as I have not finished it to see the final results. Most of the dosages are very moderate, almost too light for most.

I always recommend that one start simple to learn ones body and it's workings. This is a long cycle and that is prolly not a good idea for a newbie either.

Originally posted by Texn
Slammer,

The cycle you list is fairly involved, would you recommend that to someone who was doing their first cycle?

or is that really a cycle for a more experienced user with some prior cycle experience?

Tex

Slammer's cycle is not that complex, but then again, it probably is a bit much for a first timer.

In your first cycle, go with the basics and keep it simple. I would suggest a long acting test, used in conjunction with another long acting injectable. For me, something along the lines of following is a nice, basic, first cycle. In fact, my next cycle will be very similar to it.

BL CE 600 mg / wk Weeks 1-10
QV Deca 450 mg / wk Weeks 1-10
IP D-bol 50 mg / day Weeks 1-4
IP winny 50 mg / day Weeks 5-11
IP Arimidex .25 mg eod Weeks 3-11
IP clomid 100 mg / day Week 12
IP Clomid 50 mg / day weeks 13-14

By the way, the above doses are for me. I am 47, 6' 2", 260 and this will be my eighth cycle. My dose levels and those of someone both newer and smaller should not be the same.

Nice cycle Flex.....Very reasonable for a man of your size and experience, as you well know.

let me know how that works for ya

Hey Slammer,

Just thought I would drop in and hang around the old folk’s home. For those of you who don't know me, I am 41 years old with over 30 years experience in sports. I have done quite a few cycles covering most of the popular gear.

As far as guidelines for the older man considering a cycle, there are many things to consider. I am going to cover a couple important ones.

First of all, as we age (at least for me), cycle recovery becomes more and more difficult. Just like everything else, we just don't bounce back like we did at 25. In light of this recovery issue, one should really watch the overall volume of gear and the cycle duration as they pass the 35-40 mark and head into middle age. As a generic rule, not going too much over 1g total gear weekly, and limiting cycles to no more than 12 weeks is sound advice. I find that if I do a SHIC (short, high intensity cycle) for 4 weeks, my recovery is quick, and I am able to cycle again in a month without elaborate PCT. The same thing goes for standard cycles with durations of 6-8 weeks, except in this case a well thought out PCT is advisable. Again, recovery is not a problem, but the longer the cycle went, generally the longer the PCT. When I do my beloved DECA based cycles for 12 weeks, then recovery can take awhile, and it is usually 3 months off for me to feel confident that I have given my body plenty of time to reset, which includes at least a solid month WITHOUT any substances including clen, nolva, etc. - it doesn't matter. The machine has to run by itself problem free, au naturale between cycles prior to starting another one if you want to preserve your natural HPTA axis. Bridging is just a way of never going completely off gear, which leads to abuse as opposed to "use" which is two completely different things. I know how tough it can get between cycles sometimes, and I love the gear coursing through my veins, but I also like my health (especially working testes, thyroid, ... , etc.). I know more than one bro' on permanent HRT or thyroid medication due to LONG cycles, and/or high dosages.

Secondly, the move towards more non-aromatizable gear in your cycles is a positive move. Naturally, I use TEST, etc., but I try to build a synergistic cycle with some of the components resistant to aromatization. I find that this makes the cycles easier to manage, and I still get great gains. If I had the money, I would probably use Primobolan quite a bit in conjunction with other popular gear. I like it for many reasons, not the least of which is that it holds muscle during negative caloric balance, which helps with fat loss which becomes harder and harder as the years go by. I like Anavar - given a chance it will increase strength dramatically without the accompanying weight gain. I recently completed an 8 week regimen of Anavar ONLY + some good auxiliaries (T3 & metformin). I used 10mg/20kg body weight which was 50-60mg ed for me. My strength gradually improved until week 5, where it went ballistic for the remainder of the cycle. I was surprised that the strength gains were so awesome which was very motivational. The PCT was a walk in the park - no estrogen or progestin problems, my test & est levels (blood tested) dropped, but remained in the normal range. I used Nolva (10-20mg ed) with the supplements Tribex and ZMA for 4 weeks. No problemos, and my test (total & free) shot right back up to my normal values. To sum it up, just remember that the monster stacks of yesteryear are not necessary to achieve good solid gains whether you are a newbie (it's not a bad idea to be cautious 1st cycle), or experienced, in which case I would make the assumption that you already have a good base of quality muscle, and are not looking to gain 30 pounds of muscle at age 50 for example.

That is all for now - 2 points to chew over. By the way, I liked flexinnc's cycle, except I would slide the Dbol and the Winnie back by two weeks in order to give the injectables a chance to kick in a bit for the dbol part (more synergy); remember, the DECA lasts at least 3 weeks after the last shot, and the CE-test will last 2 weeks, so moving the Winnie back a couple weeks will not be a problem. I would have used Winstrol injectable vs. oral due to better efficacy and the fact that both Dbol and Winnie are 17-aa methylated compounds - Winstrol injectable would have removed liver 1st pass toxicity, and would have reduced concern about using two orals back to back. Anyway, when the Winnie is done (assuming the orals were delayed a couple weeks), the cycle is done - no waiting on esters to finish. General information for those of you who are interested and don’t already know about this: Nandrolone mimics progesterone (due to the fact that it is a nor-19 and progesterone is a c-19 hormone, so the receptor sites have some compatibility), and can become a problem at 400+/wk. For some reason, Winstrol seems to help with this problem (don't know why, just know it works). By the way, if you get progesterone type problems, they are similar to estrogen problems, and all the anti-aromatases in the world will be useless. Notice that flexinnc's cycle includes the Winnie, which mitigates this possibility. I would consider adding Proviron at 10mg ed throughout most of the cycle which would bring gear volume to about 1.1g/week with a bump during the Dbol, which will give a nice kick. Proviron is great stuff because it helps with estrogen, is a liver safe oral which helps to add hardness to the physique. Notice the Armidex - nice choice for this cycle considering the TEST and DBOL aromatize big time, and the DECA aromatizes as well (~ 20% that of test); Nandrolone also shuts down endogenous test production a great deal, contrary to popular belief. Keeping the estrogen in check with a strong anti-aromatase will help by removing a major negative feedback pathway by which the testes get shut down during a cycle. Well thought out, as it takes into consideration both progesterone control (Winnie), and estrogen control (Arimidex). Plus, this cycle will ROCK just about anyone with some killer gains.

Here is flexinnc's cycle slightly adjusted:

BL TEST:CE-600 mg / wk Weeks 1-10
Deca 450 mg / wk Weeks 1-10
D-bol 50 mg / day Weeks 3-6 (4 week)
Winny 50 mg / day Weeks 7-12 (6 wk.)
Arimidex .25 mg eod Weeks 3-15+
Clomid 100 mg / day Week 13
Clomid 50 mg / day weeks 14-15

Last shot of DECA at start of week10, so 3 weeks later at the start of week13 the decanoate ester in the DECA is on its last leg (4 weeks). Timing in PCT is everything.

Notes: Continue anti-estrogen therapy well into PCT and taper off beyond post. Due to the long half life of Clomid, you can front load it on the first day or two (i.e., 300mg on day 1, OR 200mg day1, 150mg day2, 100mg day3, ...back to plan above). Clomid takes 5 days to reach steady state, so this accelerates getting the blood levels to the desired level. One last thing - you might want to consider running a 4 week Clomid PCT given the effective length of the cycle, and steroids used, which are hard on endogenous testosterone production (100mg for 2 weeks, then 50mg for 2 weeks - can still front load to put the Clomid in effective range earlier, yielding 3-5 extra days).

Regards,

crispy